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About my bigotry v. discrimination article, Larry at Simple Thoughts of a Complex Mind responded quickly, which I suspected. He did clarify one mistake of mine, which was that Ron at Chatter used the word “bigot” in his post, and Larry simply responded to that. I offer my apologies for getting that wrong. That doesn’t change the basis for the argument that we too often confuse discrimination with bigotry.
At the heart of Larry’s argument was that if we take marriage out of the government’s hands and make it a religious ceremony then do we allow polygamists to have civil unions and do we set age limits on civil unions?
The polygamy argument is always the failsafe for those against the gay marriage amendment. Personally, I don’t really care who lives with whom or what they do in their bedrooms. That response is exactly what many people fear: if we let the gays marry then we will have to let the polygamists have multiple spouses, men will marry mules and pedophiles will gain the right to legally sodomize children.
Thank God for Stoner. He’s been posting on the crazy fundamentalist prude police lately. Not that Larry is crazy or part of any prude police. I just like being able to ruffle his feathers a bit now and again. Anyway, according to Stoner (who is a known liar) Baptist Bible College has a whole set of rules and regulations barring fornication or any feeling or action that might lead to such. Let’s follow Larry’s logic for a minute. Seeing how having the same legal rights is less desirable than proper prudishness we, the people of the United States of a Christian America, should make some serious laws to prevent people from committing sin in the eyes of God:
It’s stupid. People participate in sin all the time. Polygamists still marry illegally sometimes. Those who don’t illegally marry more than one wife will still live a polygamist lifestyle, but they only marry one spouse. The others are just girlfriends with illegitimate children. Young people go to clubs, engage in a mating ritual, then go home and commit fornication. Today, all across America, unmarried couples are living together and sleeping in the same bed.
Does Larry condone that? I think not. Does he accept it? I should suspect he does not. Do churches support such behavior? I know that they do not. People choose their own paths. Following Larry’s logic we should create some laws that prevent these unholy sexual unions (or the potential thereof) because the actions are morally repugnant. Come on. If we allow unmarried people to live together then that will lead to donkey-on-turtle sex and polygamy. Or wait! Despite the fact that people have lived together for years has not led to the legitimacy of polygamy and I have yet to hear of donkey-on-turtle sex. Amazing. So if living in sin has not led to polygamy and child molestation, then how exactly will civil unions of homosexuals lead to either of those? It won’t. It’s a red herring.
As for the age restriction, we set age restrictions all the time: drinking, voting, and driving. Now what Larry is getting at is that there is a movement where pedophiles want to be able to have sex with children without repercussions. First of all, the gay marriage issue is not related at all to this. Gay marriage is about two consenting adults who wish to share their lives together. We have science to prove that children lack the development to make proper decisions. Larry, being a counselor with a Master’s Degree has studied that in depth. An 11-year-old boy who is looking for male acceptance is not able to developmentally ascertain whether or not having sex with an adult is proper, nor is he able to understand the ramifications. That is why they are called children and why they are protected by laws. It is justifiable discrimination set in place for protection of the young. Adult homosexuals do not need protection from their adult consenting mate. That is the difference.
If Larry is right then we must, in good Christian conscience, legally ban all dancing, co-habitation with the opposite sex, fornication, hanging out with members of the opposite sex without a chaperone, homosexuality, and oral or anal sex between married couples. Come on, oral and anal sex between married couples is just icky and will lead couples to experiment with sexual devices, other partners, and even homosexual experiences. I’m writing my state and local official and asking them all to vote YES on the Lytle Anti-Fornication Law.
(Just so no one gets his or her panties in a wad, Larry is my good friend. We’ve known one another for many years. Digs are just a part of the friendship.)
At the heart of Larry’s argument was that if we take marriage out of the government’s hands and make it a religious ceremony then do we allow polygamists to have civil unions and do we set age limits on civil unions?
The polygamy argument is always the failsafe for those against the gay marriage amendment. Personally, I don’t really care who lives with whom or what they do in their bedrooms. That response is exactly what many people fear: if we let the gays marry then we will have to let the polygamists have multiple spouses, men will marry mules and pedophiles will gain the right to legally sodomize children.
Thank God for Stoner. He’s been posting on the crazy fundamentalist prude police lately. Not that Larry is crazy or part of any prude police. I just like being able to ruffle his feathers a bit now and again. Anyway, according to Stoner (who is a known liar) Baptist Bible College has a whole set of rules and regulations barring fornication or any feeling or action that might lead to such. Let’s follow Larry’s logic for a minute. Seeing how having the same legal rights is less desirable than proper prudishness we, the people of the United States of a Christian America, should make some serious laws to prevent people from committing sin in the eyes of God:
- No unmarried male and unmarried female can walk together in any setting unless accompanied by a chaperone.
- No one shall be allowed to have a roommate of the opposite sex, ever.
- Any unmarried person committing fornication will be found guilty and punished.
- All adultery will be illegal and the perpetrators will be punished.
- All dancing is forbidden because of the sexual gyrations of the women’s bosom. We all know that woman is the forbearer of all of human kinds evil sinfulness.
- Unmarried persons of the opposite sex may not eat together at the same table, lest they have sinful thoughts.
- No one may spend the night at a friends house without prior written approval. Any person wishing to spend the night at a friend’s home must first file a petition with the Commission of Fornication 60 days in advance to the night for permission. A formal response will be issued and must be kept on the person at all times.
It’s stupid. People participate in sin all the time. Polygamists still marry illegally sometimes. Those who don’t illegally marry more than one wife will still live a polygamist lifestyle, but they only marry one spouse. The others are just girlfriends with illegitimate children. Young people go to clubs, engage in a mating ritual, then go home and commit fornication. Today, all across America, unmarried couples are living together and sleeping in the same bed.
Does Larry condone that? I think not. Does he accept it? I should suspect he does not. Do churches support such behavior? I know that they do not. People choose their own paths. Following Larry’s logic we should create some laws that prevent these unholy sexual unions (or the potential thereof) because the actions are morally repugnant. Come on. If we allow unmarried people to live together then that will lead to donkey-on-turtle sex and polygamy. Or wait! Despite the fact that people have lived together for years has not led to the legitimacy of polygamy and I have yet to hear of donkey-on-turtle sex. Amazing. So if living in sin has not led to polygamy and child molestation, then how exactly will civil unions of homosexuals lead to either of those? It won’t. It’s a red herring.
As for the age restriction, we set age restrictions all the time: drinking, voting, and driving. Now what Larry is getting at is that there is a movement where pedophiles want to be able to have sex with children without repercussions. First of all, the gay marriage issue is not related at all to this. Gay marriage is about two consenting adults who wish to share their lives together. We have science to prove that children lack the development to make proper decisions. Larry, being a counselor with a Master’s Degree has studied that in depth. An 11-year-old boy who is looking for male acceptance is not able to developmentally ascertain whether or not having sex with an adult is proper, nor is he able to understand the ramifications. That is why they are called children and why they are protected by laws. It is justifiable discrimination set in place for protection of the young. Adult homosexuals do not need protection from their adult consenting mate. That is the difference.
If Larry is right then we must, in good Christian conscience, legally ban all dancing, co-habitation with the opposite sex, fornication, hanging out with members of the opposite sex without a chaperone, homosexuality, and oral or anal sex between married couples. Come on, oral and anal sex between married couples is just icky and will lead couples to experiment with sexual devices, other partners, and even homosexual experiences. I’m writing my state and local official and asking them all to vote YES on the Lytle Anti-Fornication Law.
(Just so no one gets his or her panties in a wad, Larry is my good friend. We’ve known one another for many years. Digs are just a part of the friendship.)
8 comments:
Firstly,
I am quite offended. You misspelled the last name. If I am going to have legislation named after me, at least it should be spelled properly. It is L I T L E. (of course in all caps)
Secondly, my argument has never been if we allow gay marriage then polygamists will take over the country. My argument is that if you support gay marriage then it should be natural for one to support polygamy rights. The polygamist movement has the same arguments of their “rights” to be violated as do homosexual couples. Polygamist marriage was legal in this country at one time and does have a heavy support group on the “Internets”. We have a law that governs that polygamy is illegal and it is based on morality, as most laws are. (There is nothing fishy nor anything red about this argument)
Thirdly, there are a lot of things that are sin. If they are done in a person's home then I do not care. If donkeys and turtles want to have sex with each other in private, then so be it. But the state does not have to give them a legal document calling it a marriage.
Fourthly, my question about age was not meant to lead you down a path about pedophiles. It was meant for you to think about what restrictions if any will be put on a civil union. Can three currently married couple have a civil union with all 6 members? If a teen couple are of age to have sex in a state then can they have a civil union? What would the legal ramifications be and how would it be different than marriage? These were much deeper than a simple liberal mind like your can comprehend.
Fifthly, quoting Stoner only makes my case for me!
"Fifthly, quoting Stoner only makes my case for me!"
I'll fornicate to that!!
Actually polygamy is Biblical so I don't see what's so wrong with it.
The "legal" part of the ceremony is your license -- which you get at the courthouse. The marriage part is strictly ceremony, where you get someone who is licensed by the state to sign your license. Preachers act as agents of the state in marriage. So no reason that we secular druids could not do the same thing to hitch up Rev Ted and Jimmy Bakker.
Lytle, Litle. Something like that.
And if you don't support gay marriage, then how come you support all these unmarried live-ins and dance halls that lead to fornication. They are all morality issues that should be governed by the state. By not madating laws regarding these issues, you are in essence, saying these things are okay. Or does that just apply to polygamy and condoms?
As for historical context, there was a time in our history when:
slavery was legal
child porn occured
children worked in factories
women could not vote
All of these things had legal precedence at some time. That has NOTHING to do with legalities today. We have now deemed them as unlawful.
As for polygamy, there is also a strong religious belief behind that movement, one that the Morman church has deemed wrong. Just because there is a movement does not have anything to do with acceptance of that movement. Although I did answer the question. I could care less if one man wants to marry 6 women. Honesty, what is the difference? If he lives with them now and has children with them now, then how does a piece of paper make any difference in their lives.
And please tell me something. How does some guy married to six women in Utah have any affect on you? It's something they do in their home. They don't have crazy orgies in the streets so why do you care so much? It's behind closed doors.
I have a photo of a crazy orgy in the street. Taken at 10 AM on a Fat Tuesday at the intersection of Bourbon and Toulousse in the Quarter. With a cop on the corner, looking down a side street ... with an open ice chest where you could throw your dollar bills ... honestly ... think the Minuta-guy would ever speak to me again if I put it up on flickr?
I'll never speak to you again if you don't at least send that photo to me.
"If we allow unmarried people to live together then that will lead to donkey-on-turtle sex and polygamy. Or wait! Despite the fact that people have lived together for years has not led to the legitimacy of polygamy and I have yet to hear of donkey-on-turtle sex. Amazing."
Oh dear. Jack, you made me do a total spit take with my coffee on that one. Well played, my friend, well played!
I'm just trying to figure out which of my Jesuit philosophy books to pull and reference... or to go Greek.
Let's see...
God is omniscient... omnipotent... blah blah blah...
Now skip to the part about free will.
Did God give you free will or not?
If not, who cares what you do? It's set in stone (no dig on Stoner).
If so, don't do what you think is wrong. It's on you, esse. The rest of us will burn into crispy critters or take your car when you disappear in the rapture... of course, only if you believe that hell exists. That fear-or-else program doesn't seem like what Jesus was talking about to me.
Jesus said nothing about being homosexual. No thing. He did speak of love quite often. And many different kinds of love that didn't translate well into the King's English.
If you want a theocratic regime, Litle take your buddies and move to Tehran. I hear they have a good thing going over there...
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